The City of Milan

The border of the city of Milano was decided 200 years ago, when the city had only 400.000 inhabitants. Today inside the same borders there are 1.300.000 inhabitants, but the REAL CITY is bigger, and has a population on 4.500.000 of inhabitants. That’s people live in Milan and in other 40/50 municipalities that are called the First and the Second Ring, or also the Grande Milan (the Big Milan). That’s the CITY of Milan.

then, as in all the rest of the world there is the Metropolitan Area of Milan, that is not exactly definite and can have from 6.5 Millions if you calculate it with the German, Spanish and English way of the Metropolitan Areas, or more than 7.5/8 Millions if you calculate it with the French and American way for M.A. Milan is the 3° biggest city of Western Europe after London and Paris.

I'm Italian and maybe I can help you as regards the City of Milan... In my opinion we can consider the metropolitan area as a groups of 40/50 municipalities in the province of Milan (let's say Rohm, Sesto San Giovanni and so on...). In the article there is a list of footballers born in this Metropolitan Area... so I can understand that also Bergamo, Varese and all the major city of Lombardia are included. In my opinion it's too much!

Maybe the list is not really correct: for example Paolo Rossi was born in Prato, near Florence; Franco and Giuseppe Baresi were born in Travagliato, a countrytown in the province of Brescia (more or less 50 miles from Milan...) and so on!

Photo: sxc.hu

Discussion Part X

You are trying to tell me that some Italians have Middle Eastern/North African ancestry dating from when Carthage attacked the Italian peninsula, and when the Phoenicians arrived in Sicily. I have already established that 1, the Carthaginians were not Middle Eastern, and they were Punic, a people whose origins is Cyprus. 2, the Phoenicians never colonized Italy, only founded a city on Sicily, Palermo. So much for your so-called extensive Middle Eastern colonization of Italy. The only southern influence on Italy I will attest to is the 75 - 200 years of Arab rule in Sicily and southern Puglia, which much of many of the people who settled Sicily were Berber, in which most were ousted during a crusade on the island by the Normans (origins Northern France/Scandinavia). Does you argument matter so much to you...either way Italians are Caucasian. You better just end your ridiculous argument on the genetic makeup of Italians. No one in Italy cares about these ridiculous arguments.

Discussion Part IX

You are a complete nutter....you clearly can’t read the links that I have provided for you. Who was bragging about the contributions of the north? NW African (Moorish) admixture in Europe is proof enough that I recognize that there is Northwest African admixture in Italy, but it shows a 2.5% average in Italian persons, compared to 8% in the Portuguese, 5% in Spaniards, and 3.5% in the French. The whole Discussion Part was based on the realization that there is minimal southern admixture as well northern admixture; Italians remain influenced wherever foreigners touched whether it is the Saracens, Germanic, Celtic, Norman, Greek, but only in a minor way. Get out of your "brown is better" phase. Realize that you and most of other central, southern Europeans, and even Eastern Europeans have medium complexions, with brown hair, dark eyes...your nothing special (incidentally the Portuguese, Spaniards, Italians, French, Croatians, Slovenes, Bosnians, Albanians, Greeks, Poles, Hungarians, Austrians, Belgians, and even Britons can share your features).

Discussion Part VIII

You claim to be Neapolitan. No other group has contributed to your area more besides the indigenous Italic peoples than the Catalans (from Catalonia, Spain). The architecture, the influence on speech and the names of people such as Rodriguez, Perez, etc. is still very apparent, but again this does not reflect the entire 59 million people occupying the peninsula. You see Italians varying from region to region reflect past influences of migrations particularly in its architecture. So we see influences such as Etruscan, Roman, Greek, Celtic, Germanic, Frankish, Byzantine, Saracen, Slavic, and Gallic influences in Italy but it all depends on where you go. You can’t speak for the whole Italian peninsula, just like I can’t. While you are proud of your Moorish history, I am proud of Italy's indigenous Romans, who not only influenced the Italian peninsula, but almost every corner of Europe and Western World, something to be more proud of than the meager contributions of others groups who left minor imprints on the map.

Apparently you can't read--I was born in Napoli and look very Mediterranean (i.e. black hair, olive skin, etc.). If you're going to brag about DNA contributions from the North, you also have to acknowledge those from the South. I'm a racial realist, NOT a racial idealist or fantasize. I don't see anything wrong with pigmentation. I myself have light brown skin and wouldn't change a thing about it. I also wouldn't change my straight black hair, Roman nose, and thin lips. Every human being should be fine with the racial traits he or she was born with. Diversity makes the world beautiful. The Mediterranean has been the most diverse region throughout its history--and there's nothing wrong with that! If the reality of history bothers you, then continue to dwell in your racial fantasies and envy of Northern Europeans. I myself will remain glad I was born with Mediterranean features and am neither too dark nor too light (Albino looking). Stopp worshipping at the altar of de-pigmentation.

Discussion Part VII

Italians like every other European population have dark and light populations. When I visited Italy last month, I saw blondes, redheads, brunettes, blacks, I saw pale, and tanned complexion Italians. You see the same differences in Poland, Germany, Britain (many Welsh people have dark complexions), Spain, France etc. Buddy you are confused. Watch some TV, like C'e Posta per te, or Forum, and look at some real Italians...far from how you describe. The Amalfi cathedral as something to back your argument is week. According to historians, the cathedral is a mixture of Romanesque, Goth, Byzantine, and Arab-Norman style. Looking at the cathedral it is strikingly Byzantine. Instead of focusing your attention to the future demise of Italy such as a declining population due to ageing, you are focusing yourself on ridiculous arguments.

Buddy, you are the biggest joke ever, but I have to admire your stupidity because you believe it. You distinguish me as anti-Islamic, though it was you who previously wrote: "There is no reason to be ashamed since most of this link pre-dates the founding of Islam." You sound pretty hypocritical to me.

I provide you a link showing NW African (Moorish) admixture in Europe (northern Italians: 1.5%, south-central Italians: 1.3%, Sardinians: 0.3%, and Sicilians: 3.1%) and you still accuse me of denying this though I acknowledge this contribution to the Italian gene pool. Seriously, who cares if Italians are embarrassed or ashamed to acknowledge this fraction of their heritage? Did you know that virtually every population in Europe has some sub-Saharan admixture: "According to a summary study by Pereira et al. 2005,[3] sub-Saharan mtDNA L haplogroups were found at rates of 0.62% in a German-Danish sample, 1% in the British, 3.83% in Iberians (Portuguese and Spanish), 2.38% in Albanians, 2.86% in Sardinians and 0.94% in Sicilians." Another study saw: "Sub-Saharan African Y-chromosomes are much less common in Europe, for the reasons discussed above. However, Haplogroups E (xE3b) and Haplogroup A spread to Europe due to migrations from Northeast Africa, rather than the slave trade. The haplotypes have been detected in Portugal (3%), Spain (0.42%), Germany (2%), Austria (0.78%), France (2.5% in a very small sample), Italy (0.45%), Sardinia (1.6%) and Greece (0.27%). By contrast, North Africans have about 5% paternal black admixture."

Discussion Part VI

Who said that north was better than south. I am Italian, Black, Native, and Scots-Irish definitely not pure anything. But your argument is baseless. If you are willing to acknowledge 2.5% of your roots as Middle Eastern, why won’t you accept the Celtic, Germanic, and Roman, Italic, Greek, and Norman elements that flow in your blood as well including Catalan which had a strong presence in Napoli where you’re from? Funny you being from there would not mention stronger Catalan (Spanish) influences. Many slaves were Middle Eastern, but an equally great number were Germanic/Slavic, including many Slavic mercenaries who settled Italy (have you ever watched King Arthur). North Africa and the Middle East were sparse as it was mostly desert, which the Roman Empire did not pass the fringes of the Sahara. On the other hand, the Slavic speaking areas of Europe were extremely dense and absorbed by the Roman Empire. Plus I have already established the fact that North Africa at the time was not Arab, rather they were Berber/Punic.

Discussion Part V

Although I find the latter a bit biased, since Muslim influence extended to Northern Italy as well. Finally, I am not anti-Muslim. While Europe was in the Dark Ages, it was in the Muslim world that the great antiquities in art and literature were preserved. Egypt had the first great Empire, and I proud to acknowledge that going back a couple thousand years that SOME of my ancestors came from there. Let's stop this "North is good, South is bad" mindset. South is good too!

I think that my link to showing NW African (Moorish) admixture in Europe is proof enough that I recognize that there is Northwest African admixture in Italy, but it shows a 2.5% average in Italian persons, compared to 8% in the Portuguese, 5% in Spaniards, and 3.5% in the French. My father is a Calabrian, born to a family of fair skinned, green eyed redheads, in the mountains. His family could easily be mistaken for Irish, Scottish and others. A land bridge...what are you talking about...please tell me you don’t base your theories on Neanderthals. Buddy, to this day, Rome is the capital of Italy, but not the largest city in Italy.